Parenting Hacks and Lessons Learned from Triplet Dad Chris Barry – Podcast 163

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Episode 163 of the Dad’s Guide to Twins Podcast Show Notes

In this episode, we continue our Father of Twins Interview Series with Chris Barry, father of triplets including identical twin boys and a fraternal girl.

On the show, we dive into Chris’ triplet journey, including:

• The big leap from finding out they were expecting their first child to finding out they were expecting triplets
• Mom’s reaction to triplets vs. Dad’s thoughts
• Navigating all the bad news on the Internet about having multiples
• Sanity-saving mantras that helped Chris and his wife focus on their progress
• How a surprise diagnosis during a routine ultrasound lead to the babies’ birth
• Why Dad wasn’t allowed into the delivery room
• Being flexible with your birth plan
• The babies’ NICU stay as “feeders and growers”
• Using the NICU as practice time to be ready for your babies when they come home
• A system for coordinating helpers
• Specialized gear they needed for triplets
• Parenting hacks to get gear to work for triplets
• Making space in the house for multiple babies
• What do you do with one baby when you have to help the other?
• Sleeping multiples together in the same room vs. separate rooms
• How separating the kids for school worked differently than they thought it would
• Challenges of having 3 five-year-olds in the house

Connect with Chris:
Free guide from Chris: 25 Pro Tips & Life Hacks for New and Expectant Parents of Twins, Triplets & More
www.lifewithmultiples.com
Life With Multiples Podcast
Life With Multiples on Facebook

Transcript

Joe: Hi there, and welcome to the 163rd episode of the Dad’s guide to twins podcast. This is Joe Rawlinson. You can find me on the web at twindadpodcast.com where you’ll find the complete show notes and transcript for this episode and all previous podcast episodes.

Today we are continuing our father twins interview series with a very special guest who is not only a father of twins but those twins are part of a set of triplets. Today’s show is brought to you by twintshirtcompany.com where you’ll find dozens of tshirts designed specifically for you, parents of twins. Head on over to twintshirtcompany.com to pick up a shirt for you, for your sweetheart or even the grandparents.

Today we’ll be chatting with Chris Barry who is a father of triplets. He has identical twin boys and a fraternal daughter. Chris is the first triplet dad that we’ve had on the podcast, so I’m excited to share his story with you. There are some similarities of raising twins, but there’s a lot of unique nuances with triplets. And some of the tips and tricks and life hacks that they had to come up with as a family to navigate and manage triplets will also be very helpful to you as you raise your twins. Let’s jump right into the interview with Chris.

Chris: My wife Kathleen and I were trying for our first child. We had a pug, and that was about it. Otherwise, we were what is known as DINKs, dual income no kids, and soon were about to embark on the adventure that would turn us into POMs, parents of multiples. We were both working our full-time jobs and quite happy in our careers. We’re ready to settle down. We’d just bought a house and thought maybe we’re ready for a kid.

Joe: So how did the transition go from finding out that you were pregnant to finding out that you were pregnant with multiples?

Chris: In our trying I remember the morning Kathleen came in with the pregnancy test. I had slept in that morning, and she, I think, had been awake for hours with this positive home tester. She came in when I woke up, and she said, “The test is positive. I don’t know what that means. I better go do another one” So she did it again, and she did it again. I think she did it three times. We realized she was pregnant.

At about the eight week mark we went in for the typical dating ultrasound, so it was our first ultrasound, and we were ready to see images of our first child. The technician at the clinic was taking an awful long time. She was very quiet, and her brow was furrowed. We obviously had never been to an ultrasound before, we weren’t sure how long these things took, but she kind of abruptly left and went and spoke to a supervisor. I think what she was doing was seeing if she could get permission to tell us, because typically, ultrasound technicians aren’t supposed to divulge any findings about the pregnancy.

She came back, and we asked if everything was all right. She asked if the pregnancy was a natural conception, which it was. We hadn’t used any fertility treatments, but at the time that was so far out of our concept that Kathleen later told me that she thought, “What other kind of conception is there? Immaculate?” So, she was asking us these questions, and then all of a sudden Kathleen clued in, and she gasped, and she said, “Oh my god, is there more than one?” And of course the technician said, “Yes.” And Kathleen said, “Is there more than two?” And that’s when she said, “Yes, you have triplets.”

Needless to say, we were shocked. Kathleen let out a scream and then she started bawling, I, on the other hand, was laughing hysterically, and I almost fainted. Of course, I had all these images of our imminent future flashing before my eyes. I was picturing minivans and three kids running circles around us and three kids all with pointy hats blowing out the same birthday cake. I just thought it was like this flash forward into my future. All of those things have since come true.

We were in shock, and honestly, we left the ultrasound appointment feeling numb and shaken and all of our initial excitement of going into this new experience now had kind of left us uncertain and filled with anxiety and fear. I remember on the ride home seeing how upset Kathleen was trying to make her laugh, and I was trying to think of the positives, and I was saying, “Just think, with triplets, there’ll be all these great Halloween costume ideas right? We could dress them up as Huey, Dewey, and Louie. Or ketchup, mustard and relish”. So I got a laugh out of her.

But then came the time to call our parents and update them, because of course, they knew we were going in for our first ultrasound. As soon as Kathleen’s mother answered the phone, Kathleen burst out crying and her mom said, “Oh my gosh, is everything okay with the baby?” Kathleen said, “It’s not baby, it’s babies”, to which her mum said, “Oh my gosh you’re having twins?” Kathleen’s retort, which still cracks me up to this day, she said, “Twins and some other kid” and started bawling. What was really nice was our parents upon hearing this news, they were as shocked as we were of course, but they all offered their support and said no matter what we’ll get through this together, we’re here to support you. Quite honestly they’ve been such an amazing support over the past five and a half years.

Joe: It’s interesting to me your initial reaction. I had something similar. The dads immediately jump ahead a few years into the future envisioning their children, like you mentioned, running around and birthday parties and stuff. I think the moms go straight to what’s gonna happen over the next several months before I even have these babies and getting them the initial phases of life. I thought that was very interesting we had very similar jump ahead view of the future I’ve heard other dads have had as well.

Chris: It’s understandable why our wives and partners and the mothers of these multiples are so anxious because this is something that’s going on inside their body, and it’s happening to them now. They have this kind of journey ahead of them before the babies are born. Yeah, I know for Kathleen, she felt like she was getting onto some roller coaster that she had never bought a ticket to. Right? Like I didn’t sign up for this. And that was, of course, scary wondering can I carry twins or can I carry triplets. Will my body bring them to a safe delivery date? All these immediate concerns that a mother or parent would have.

Joe: So, how did you both navigate these concerns about the health of the babies, health of the mom, and getting ready for your triplets?

Chris: We foolishly Googled “triplet pregnancies” and of course were greeted with all these Google hits with frightening statistics and talk of twin to twin transfusion syndrome and preeclampsia and all these terms. Things that parents should obviously be aware of, but I think if I could impart one tip to people who may be listening who may be pregnant right now is we had a mantra, and it was “do not worry until there’s something to worry about”. We’d take stock of all the potential things that could go wrong in a pregnancy or precautions to take, but from ultrasound to ultrasound when we got good news, we would just breathe easy for the next two weeks until the next ultrasound because we were going for bi-weekly ultrasounds. They tend to be a bit more frequent with the triplet pregnancies. But yeah, our mantra is just “don’t worry until there’s actually something to worry about”, because it’s a waste of energy to fret over things that might happen.

When you go to the hospital or you go to your OB for that first initial appointment, of course they wanna be up front. They wanna be transparent, and they wanna tell you of all the potential risks. There’s a difference between what could happen and what will happen.

Joe: That is so true. That is great advice, because our first inclination is to freak out and to worry about every possible scenario, and the reality is everything’s not gonna happen to you. Until you get new information, like you said, when you go to your next doctor’s appointment or your next ultrasound, that’s when you take the new information and then act on that. Otherwise, you’re just worrying about too many hypotheticals, and you destroy your ability to prepare for your babies, rest yourself, and get ready for this great adventure you’re gonna be on.

Chris: I find a lot of mothers of multiples and those who I’ve spoken to feel that in a lot of ways they don’t enjoy their pregnancy maybe as much as singleton mothers they know, and it’s because they are handed so much worry. So, I’d say think of our mantra, don’t worry until there’s something to worry about, and try to take it day by day and try to enjoy your pregnancy, because for many parents of multiples it’s the only one you’re gonna have.

Joe: How was the reality of the pregnancy with triplets? What complications did arise?

Chris: Ours was quite uneventful, luckily. Kathleen worked quite late into the pregnancy. And like I said, we were going for ultrasounds about every two weeks, and then when she got up into the late 20s, early 30 week mark, we started going weekly. At about 32 1/2 weeks, we waltzed into our regularly scheduled ultrasound. The babies seemed to be fine, but at the end, as they usually do, they took Kathleen’s blood pressure, and she was actually showing signs of preeclampsia.

It’s a condition that’s characterized by high blood pressure, and preeclampsia is a precursor to eclampsia, which can be quite dangerous. It can also be fatal for mother and child. So, they checked her into the hospital, scheduled her for an “emergency” C-section, which actually happened the following day. But she was basically put into queue, and then the next day our guys were born.

Joe: So, you went from a regular checkup to surprise, you’re gonna have these babies. You were not expecting to have babies that day or that week?

Chris: As soon as we knew it was imminent, I think things got very real. We started contacting our parents and telling people to come into town, those who we wanted near. Yeah, putting things into place. We had prepared, so we had a bag ready. We knew that this could happen because 32 1/2 weeks, 33 weeks is pretty typical for triplets to be born, so we knew we were getting close. You’re never really prepared.

Joe: How was the birth for you as a dad? How were you able to participate in that?

Chris: Typically, the fathers are in the OR, which is where a caesarian will happen. But given the particular circumstances of Kathleen’s situation, I actually wasn’t permitted in the OR, the reason being was her blood platelets were low, and so she wasn’t able to get an epidural. They actually had to put her under general anesthetic, and because she’d be unconscious she didn’t need me there for moral support, and I would just be in the way. Policy that I be in the waiting room with my family. That was bit odd, but also I’m quite squeamish. I other ways I was quite happy to be there, let the doctors and nurses do their thing. As soon as the babies were born, I was able to see them.

Joe: So, she was under anesthesia. When was she able to see the babies?

Chris: It took her a while to come to and be lucid enough to see the babies. I think the one lesson we took from that was when it comes to multiples and multiple births it’s hard to have a birth plan. It’s hard to stick to a vision or an idea of what your pregnancy or what your birth of your children is going to be like. You have to be willing to go with the flow, because one thing I know Kathleen always dreamed of was the day her baby would be born and she’d hold that baby in her arms for the first minutes of that child’s life and have that immediate bond and perform skin-to-skin, all these things. And she felt for a long time that she was kind of robbed of that, sadly. When she did get wheeled in to see the babies in the hospital’s NICU, she was still waking up. She felt very groggy, so she felt kind of robbed of that first experience of seeing her children for the first time.

But it was weeks later and we were still in the NICU that a friend was visiting and Kathleen was sharing this experience and this sense of loss of that moment. The friend shared something, which we both have remembered, and that was that you make your own firsts. And with multiples, there are so many firsts. The first time we brought them home. The first time we held them. The first time we bathed them. The first time one of our children smiled or giggled. So, there are so many firsts, and I always remember that. You make your own firsts.

Joe: How long were your babies in the hospital before you were able to bring them home?

Chris: They were in the hospital for about four weeks. The NICU nurses will lovingly refer to as feeders and growers because they were just a little bit under weight, and developmentally they really weren’t ready to coordinate sucking and breathing. We fed them via a tube through their noses into their stomachs, so we fed them that way, and then started practicing breastfeeding and things like that. And also bottle feeding. There was a mix until they could gain some weight, make that safe car trip home. We have two identical twin boys and a fraternal twin sister, and the boys came home first. They were a little bit larger and ready to make the trip home. And then our daughter came home a couple days later.

Joe: Has that size differential maintained itself over the years?

Chris: Yeah, it has in our case. Our daughter was quite a bit smaller. Our boys were just under four pounds each when they were born, and our daughter was I think 2.9 pounds, so under three. She was markedly smaller. She’s a little bit shorter than the boys. The boys are pretty much … they always weigh in the exact same to the ounce. It’s funny.

Joe: You brought the babies home, first the boys and then your daughter. How were you able to manage maintaining a feeding schedule with the three of them?

Chris: The fact that we were in the NICU for a month was amazing practice. The nurses were there to guide us and coach us and get us onto that schedule where initially we were feeding them every three hours, so eight times a day. A lot of people might be intimidated or anxious about spending time in the NICU if that ends up being the case, but honestly we had such a good experience. Before the babies came home, it allowed Kathleen to rest and recoup from a C-section, so she could sleep in her own bed. And honestly, we needed that rest and calm before the storm and then to visit the babies during the day. So, that was nice, as well.

We were in a pretty good groove by the time we got the two boys home. And it was nice, too, to get them home in a staggered fashion, as well, so we could say, okay, we’ve got these two babies and get comfortable with them for a few days and then bring the third one in, which as soon as you have three and you’re outnumbered, it’s exponentially more difficult.

Joe: Was it just you and your wife in those early days, or did you have grandmas come over and help? How did that work?

Chris: We certainly had grandmas come. Her mother came and took shifts with my mom helping. We had friends as well. One thing we did was we set up a Google calendar, and we invited friends who were anxious to help. And we set a schedule so that when I went back to work soon after the kids came home and we had a line out the door of people who wanted to come and legitimately help with feedings and giving Kathleen a break, which was so much appreciated. But it was nice to be able to harness and organize that help through something like Google calendars. We actually put a friend of ours in charge of making sure those slots were filled so that first several months Kathleen didn’t have a day that she would have to do alone, and then the grandmas helped at night sleeping over and helping with night feeds and things like that.

Two and a half, maybe three months in where Kathleen started to become comfortable and actually wanted her space and wanted her time alone with the babies and she was well into the groove and into the flow, so she could scale back the help and was willing to take it on her own.

Joe: Was she successful in breastfeeding, or was everything going through a bottle?

Chris: We ended up doing a mix of breastfeeding, bottle feeding as well as breast milk and formula. We had all things going. Being able to bottle feed was key because as you know, especially when they first come home, it’s every three hours. The next feeding starts three hours after the start of the prior feeding, so it’s a constant cycle. In order to get through the feedings efficiently, it was nice to be able to help.

If she was, for example, tandem breastfeeding, I was able to bottle feed one. Or in the beginning she was getting the groove of breastfeeding, so she would be focused on doing that and bonding with one, and I could bottle feed the other two. And then we would just rotate the kids so they all had an opportunity to experience booth.

She found it challenging to not produced enough just to keep the supply there in terms of constantly pumping when she wasn’t breastfeeding. That got tiring, so we were supplementing with formula, as well.

Joe: When you brought them home were they sleeping in your room?

Chris: For the first few months, I’d say, they were in a crib in our room. It was nice, close at hand. For those night feedings it was easy just to have the alarm pop up, bring them into bed with us, do the feedings, and then put them back to sleep, and we could all get back to sleep as soon as possible.

Joe: What kind of specialized baby gear did you need to get because you had three babies?

Chris: We needed a triplet stroller, for one, which you don’t find in your regular Walmart or Babies-R-Us, so that took some looking online. We got a triplet snap and go. In fact, we got three strollers, which we all bought second hand, which certainly helped. But we bought three different strollers for all the different circumstances. So, if one of us were to take the babies out on our own, for example if Kathleen was home while I was at work and she needed to get out of the house, she could plop them all into the triplet stroller and take a walk around the block, which was great. But if we were all going out as a family, it was a bit ridiculous.

Honestly, a triplet stroller if you’ve seen them, they’re like limousines. We looked like were a daycare, I’m sure. We had a single and a double as well so that we could both push the babies. And also if one of the babies had to go to a doctor’s appointment on their own we wouldn’t have to bring this honking triplet stroller. We could just bring them in the single. It was funny. For the three different kids, we actually needed three iterations and three strollers.

Joe: Very creative solution to get where you needed to go with the right amount of kids and the right amount of parents.

Chris: Yeah. Every situation calls for a different stroller we’ve found. If we all decided to go out shopping as a family because we both desperately needed to get out of the house and shopping was our big outing for the week, we needed to bring the triplet stroller because one of us, of course, had to push the shopping cart. It was all these things you don’t think about.

As far as specialized gear for triplets, there isn’t that much, but we kind of had to MacGyver our own or life hack our own. One thing we did was we bought very inexpensive wire frame bouncers, which are amazing in the early months for when your babies are sleeping or feeding. They spent a lot of time in these wire bouncers. These are the ones where you bounce with your foot. But it was hard. You could do two. You could do tandem bouncing with two feet, but once you have that third baby, it becomes difficult. You’ve always got odd man out. So, one little hack we came up with was overlapping each of these wire bouncers so that you’d bounce the first one and it would bounce the second one and the second one would then bounce the third, so we could actually use on foot and bounce all three babies. Another thing you could do is just zip tie all three together. And you could do this with twins as well. That was one hack that we came up with. They say necessity is the mother of invention, so there you go.

Joe: That is a good hack. We loved those bouncers for our girls, too.

Chris: They’re great. I guess one more thing I’ll mention too is we needed space in our house. Our house isn’t huge, so one thing we did was we got rid of our dining room table, and we turned our dining room into a baby land where we set up one of those foam mats, those ply mats. One thing we got, which was fantastic, was I think it’s called the Super Yard. It’s basically a corral for children, and we set that up. It was almost the perimeter of our dining room, so the dining room was just a safe place filled with plush toys. We had a change station there. And like I said it became kiddie land.

And the reason that that Super Yard was so great was we knew that we could put the kids inside and they’d be safe, especially as they started to toddle around. If we need to change one of their diapers, because it’s always what you know. That’s a problem specific to multiples is if you’ve got two babies or you’ve got three babies, what do you do with the others when you have to focus on one. This Super Yard was a great place to put them, and we knew they were safe. And it’s great, too, once they start to learn to walk. They can walk the perimeter and hold onto the sides. Yeah. That was our dining room for about a year.

Joe: That’s very smart to have a safe go-to location that you can put your kids when you need to take care of something else or you need to take care of one of them individually.

Chris: Another related tip is I mentioned on that main floor in our dining room we had a change station. We also had one upstairs in their nursery. But I would definitely recommend if people listening are thinking about their house and how they might set it up, I would definitely consider putting some sort of change station on each level of your house. It can be really no frills, too. It doesn’t have to be a full expensive change station. It could just be the supplies and a mat on the floor. We used one of these little three drawer cheapo dressers from Ikea that are about waist height, and then we put a change mat on top and kept all the supplies and spare onesies and things in the drawers underneath. We made use of existing furniture we had and made makeshift change tables out of that. But I’d say definitely have one on each floor because if you have to change a diaper you don’t wanna be running up and down the stairs constantly, and you don’t wanna be leaving your other children unattended.

Joe: We just have one level house, but we still had multiple changing areas with supplies so we can change wherever we were in the house. We can grab the diaper and take care of business. Did your kids all share a bedroom, or were they split up like the boys in one room and your daughter in the other room?

Chris: Once they left the crib in our room, they moved into their own nursery. Luckily it was big enough to house three cribs, so they all shared a room. And they still do. It’s five and a half years later, and they still happily share a room. We bought these Ikea convertible cribs. The one thing with multiples is you can’t take advantage of hand-me-downs. It’s not like your younger child can use the crib that your older child slept in, so you’re having to buy two or three cribs at a time. We found it very helpful to buy convertible cribs that went from infant beds to toddler beds. Our guys are small, and they’re actually still sleeping in the toddler beds. I think it’s time they graduate to single beds now. We might get bunk beds, but we have to figure that one out. They’re still happily sleeping in their little toddler convertible cribs.

Joe: That’s great. I know parents of fraternal twins where you have boy girl twins and in your case where you have a mix of boys and girl, the question is when do we end up putting them in their own room? Seems like you haven’t had to reach that milestone yet where maybe they express a desire to be in separate rooms. They’re just happy together.

Chris: Yeah. Our guys are so close. They love being together, sometimes to our chagrin because they’ll be up to all hours just giggling and getting up to no good. But they love it, and I think if we were to suggest moving our daughter, say, to her own room at least at this stage I don’t think she’d be having it.

Joe: So, right now they’re five. Are they in a kindergarten or preschool right now?

Chris: Yeah. They’re in a kindergarten.

Joe: And what kind of arrangements did you have there? Are they all in separate classes or are they together?

Chris: In junior kindergarten, so they’re about four, they luckily had three classes, so we were able to separate the kids. Now, at first that wasn’t our wish. We wanted to keep them all together. We thought it would be a difficult transition for them to separate. They’d spent their whole lives together up to that point. Our preference had been to keep them together, but the school’s policy was to separate multiples. After many conversations, we agreed that that might be something to try, and honestly it was probably in our case one of the best things we could have done. It was really nice to see the kids develop their own friendships outside of themselves, to not bring school drama home and not bring home drama to school. That was quite nice, and I really enjoyed watching them just develop their own friendships. And honestly to give themselves a break from each other. They spend so much time together, so I think they really enjoyed having their own teachers and their own stories and their own days alone.

Now that they’re in senior kindergarten the school only had two senior kindergarten classes, so actually, two of them are together and one of them is on his own. But he loves it. It hasn’t been an issue.

Joe: That’s great. What are some of the challenges you’re facing at this age with them?

Chris: They’re pretty good kids. Aside from just the regular schoolyard drama and things like that, our guys, like I said, they get along pretty well. We’re still dealing with some bedwetting and things like that, but we’re anxious to get out of that stage, just the nighttime accidents and Kathleen and I getting up at 3:00 in the morning bleary-eyed having to change sheets on our kids’ beds and things like that.

Another mantra that we have is “this too shall pass”. So, as annoying as things may seem, it’s not gonna last forever.

Joe: Yeah, our kids have gone through those phases you’re describing, too. There’s the middle of the night wakeups or the bedwetting or the picky eating. Your kids are five now. They get to a point to where it’s just like having a bunch of kids in the house, and you have kid challenges that aren’t necessarily having multiple or twin specific. But you gotta be a parent, and these different challenges pop up at different ages, and it’s part of the learning process for us as dads to help guide them into being little people instead of in pure survival mode of I have to make sure you eat and your diaper’s changed and you’re sleeping. They graduate to more complex challenges of parenting. But it’s part of the fun of the journey.

Chris: As certain things get easier, new challenges present themselves. In our case because the triplets are our only kids, we find that we’re constant newbies. It’s not like we have an older child who we can learn from the mistakes we made with them.

Joe: Chris, you and your wife have a great website and podcast to help our fellow parents of multiples and twins. Can you share a little bit about that?

Chris: A few years into our experience, decided to start a blog. We write about our own experience somewhat, but it’s more to share those tips and tricks and the life hacks that we mentioned. Just things that worked for us because we’d like to have other people learn from our triumphs but also our failures. We profile other parents of twins and triplets and quadruplets, as well, on the site so that we can all learn from each other’s experiences.

Joe: Yeah, it’s a fabulous resource because as we found out when we were expecting twins and as you found out there’s just not a lot of real practical advice and help out there, so it’s wonderful that you are helping share your story and that of other people so we can all learn from each other’s experience.

Chris: The one thing we found having higher order multiples is that there is even less information for parents of triplets, quadruplets, quintuplets because there are unique challenges for us, as well. Like I mentioned, the trouble finding triplet strollers or finding a vehicle that fits three car seats across. Things like that.

Joe: So Chris, if listeners want to connect with you, what’s the best way to reach out?

Chris: They can reach us at our website, which is lifewithmultiples.com, and we’re also on Facebook, and that’s Facebook.com/lifewithmultiples. And as you mentioned we also recently started a podcast, and each one tackles a little tidbit of life with multiples, and that is Life with Multiples podcast. That’s on iTunes or Stitch or Google Play, wherever people might find podcasts. They can also email us, too, if they have any specific questions, and that’s just [email protected].

Joe: Fantastic. I’ll link up all that in the show notes for this episode. Chris, thank you so much for sharing your journey with us. We really appreciate it.

Chris: Thanks so much, Joe. I really appreciate it. And I wanna say, too, I appreciate that you offer a dad’s perspective and bring dads into the conversation because so often moms take the lead on these types of discussions. This, I think, is a great resource and a great forum that you’ve created, so thank you.

Joe: You’re welcome. I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Chris Barry, father of triplets. As Chris mentioned, he and his wife have an amazing website and podcast, Life with Multiples. You can check them out at lifewithmultiples.com. In fact, Chris has put together a special page just for you, listeners of the Dad’s Guide To Twins podcast. You can see that at lifewithmultiples.com/dads where you’ll find some additional tips and tricks that’ll help you along your journey with your multiples. And of course, there will be links to all of the information shared today over at twindadpodcast.com.

Today’s show is brought to you by twintshirtcompany.com where you’ll find dozens of unique designs for parents of twins. Check them out at twintshirtcompany.com. Thank you so much for listening, and I’ll see you next time.

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