Episode 199 of the Dad’s Guide to Twins Podcast Show Notes
Today we continue our father of twins interview series with Mike Ciccotello, father of fraternal twin boys. Listen as we explore his twin parenting journey, including:
- Surprise of twins after IVF
- Dealing with bed rest at the end of the twin pregnancy
- When Mom’s water breaks and everyone freaks out
- Having a natural birth of the twins
- Small complications after birth and a brief NICU stay
- Trouble keeping the twins’ body temperatures regulated and an unexpected trip to the hospital
- The joys of getting the twins on a schedule
- Taking parenting shifts for feeding the twins
- Preparing everything for nighttime care
- Finding a good daycare facility for the twins
- When one twin succeeds at potty training and the other doesn’t
Connect with Mike on Instagram
Joe: Hi there, and welcome to the 199th episode of The Dad’s Guide to Twins podcast. This is Joe Rawlinson. As always, you can find me on the web at TwinDadPodcast.com, where you’ll find the complete transcript for this episode, and you can listen to all previous podcast episodes.
Joe: Today, we are continuing our father of twins interview series with fellow father of twins, Mike Ciccotello, who not only is a dad of fraternal twin boys, but he’s an amazing illustrator and artist. We’ll get to hear a little bit about an exciting new book he has coming out for twins, a beautifully illustrated children’s book. If you want a chance to win his new book, make sure you listen to the end of the podcast for instructions on how to do just that.
Joe: Today’s show is brought to you by TwinTshirtCompany.com, where you’ll find dozens of t-shirts designed specifically for you, fathers of twins, moms of twins, and the twins themselves. You can check out those amazing designs over at TwinTshirtCompany.com.
Joe: Today, I’d like to welcome to the show, fellow father of twins, Mike Ciccotello. Welcome to the show, Mike.
Mike: Hey, Joe, how are you doing? Thanks for having me here.
Joe: I’m doing well. Thanks for joining me. I’m excited to jump into your twin journey today. How old are your twins right now?
Mike: They are four.
Joe: Four years old. They are fraternal twin boys, is that right?
Mike: Fraternal twins, yes.
Joe: Well, let’s rewind the clock. When you found out that you were having twins, what were some of your… What was your family situation like and what were some of your initial reactions to that?
Mike: Well, we went through IVF, and we were… Actually, I remember the moment. They were doing the sonogram, and they were looking on the camera. We were looking… Or, on the monitor were looking, and we saw the one heartbeat. And the technician said, “Oh, look, there’s one heartbeat.” And then, I pointed to the monitor and I said, “Is that another heartbeat?” And they said, “Why yes, it is. Do you work in the medical field at all?” And my wife turned to them and said, “No, he’s an artist.” So, yeah, it was a just a moment of like, “Wow, there’s two in there. This is amazing.” Because we talked about the possibility since we were going through IVF that we were going to have more than one, and wanted to have two kids.
Mike: And you know, there was the scariness of having twins, but then also the kind of like, “Wow, we’re going to have two kids at the same time,” and we’re a little… We’re starting this journey a little older. We were in our… We were 40 when we started this. So, it was kind of exciting to, you know… All of a sudden, now we’re a family of four, or about to be. Yeah, that was that experience. Then, explaining to the family… Everybody was amazed and wowed. And all of a sudden there was grandkids, and yeah, pretty exciting. Pretty exciting time.
Joe: Were your boys the first grandkids for your family?
Mike: On my side, yes. On my wife’s side, no.
Joe: That’s always a cherished spot to be, the first grandchild, for sure. How did the pregnancy progress for your wife with the boys?
Mike: It was a little tough. There were times we were very concerned about her blood pressure and being preeclamptic, but it was… We got through all that, and she had an excellent doctor. He was very attentive to her needs and with a couple trips back and forth to the hospital here and there. But we were quick to get there, and everybody… The whole hospital experience was pretty good, I have to say. Everybody was on top of their stuff. They tried to make her comfortable at all times. I remember rearranging the furniture when she was on bedrest, where she had to be home and she was lying on the couch, and rearranging the furniture so she could watch TV and lay lengthwise like on the couch, and making all those changes just to accommodate whatever she needed as we went through that.
Joe: Was she working during the pregnancy or was she just at home resting?
Mike: Worked up until she was ordered for bedrest, and then she stopped working at that point.
Joe: Well, tell us about the day when the boys arrived. Was that expected like a scheduled C-section, or was it a, “Surprise, it’s time to have boys”?
Mike: It was a surprise. Her water broke, and she woke up and she was like, “I think my water broke.” And we were like, “Oh, my God, let’s… What do we do? Get the go bag.” Because we were under the idea that it was go time. We had to get to the hospital as soon as possible and all this was going to happen like really fast. And you know, after we talked to the doctor he said, “No, that’s not the case at all. You’re not actually going to deliver tonight or possibly tomorrow. Well, they’re going to see what happens. Just get to the hospital now.”.
Mike: So, we got to the hospital, got all settled in, and the doctor, her doctor, talked us through. There was another doctor there at the time, and then eventually, her doctor came in and did the delivery and we got the meet the boys. And it was the most incredible… The most incredible moment of my life, for sure.
Joe: How far along in the pregnancy was she when the boy babies arrived?
Mike: 35 weeks, four days.
Joe: Was she able to deliver the boys vaginally or was there any surgery required?
Mike: No surgery. Nope. That’s one of the reasons why we went to the doctor that we went to because we knew that he had great experience with natural birth and doing procedures if necessary. He was well-versed and people spoke very highly of him.
Joe: That’s fantastic. I know a lot of listeners that are expecting or hoping to have a natural birth. A C-section’s always a possibility with twins, but your story is a great example that yes, it is possible. And if you plan for that, it is possible for your twins to be born that way.
Joe: Did they have any complications at birth or were you able to be with them and take them home shortly thereafter?
Mike: There was a small complication. They had a little trouble regulating their temperature and they were jaundiced, but it didn’t take long. I think we were in the NICU for three days, four days tops. That’s a little blurry there, but it was only like over a short period of time. So, I guess technically we’re NICU parents, but it really doesn’t feel like an appropriate title because we weren’t there as long as many parents that go through twin births or multiple births are there for a much longer time.
Joe: Yeah, for sure. Three, four days is pretty good. Usually that’s about the recovery time for mom anyway, so.
Mike: Yeah, got them home and it was a little bit more us getting used to the regulating their temperature because we wanted to keep them really warm because it was very cold. I think it was like… I think it was zero out and it was during a… They were born February, so it was very cold. I think there was this snow storm going on outside. So, the temperature was hitting zero or one degree pretty frequently, and we were just… kept padding all these blankets around the bassinets, and keeping them warm, and making sure that their temperatures were good.
Mike: There was one trip to the emergency room, and it was all temperature-based that we thought, “What’s wrong? Their temperature’s going down.” It was just… Or, the temperature was going down, or it was going up. And it was just us learning to regulate the temperature, like the clothing and the blankets around them to make sure that they were a consistent temperature until they could regulate that a little bit more on their own.
Joe: How long till they kind of grew into that?
Mike: I think probably it took a little bit like about a month until we… It was only one trip to the emergency room at that point. The emergency room nurse said, “Yes, this is your first time, but it won’t be your last time here.” They were excellent, excellent care, and they were just so accommodating with everything. They were just… a really great experience with the emergency room staff and the hospital that we went to. It was the same hospital we went to for the emergency room. It was great.
Joe: Well, what were some of the other things that surprised you the most about having twins?
Mike: Oh, everything. Well, because these are our first… As I explain to people, it’s our first, second, and last. We didn’t know any different because we didn’t have a singleton to start off with or any older children to start off. So, everything was new. But the coverage of, and not knowing what you’re doing as far as who’s taking care of what baby and feeding time… It didn’t take long for us to get into a groove.
Mike: I would say the most… We always refer back to the NICU time that they spent there and them teaching us how to put them on a three-hour schedule. That was incredible. So, when we got on a three-hour schedule, we just three hours sleep and then they’re up, and then three hours sleep and then they’re up. You know, just every three hours. And we were golden with that. It was good at first. I don’t remember too much other than that was the schedule.
Mike: But making sure that we knew how to swaddle, and how to change the diaper, and we weren’t going to break them, because at first your hands are shaking as you’re putting on the diaper, because you want to be so gentle and you want to do it just right, and you don’t want to… Then, after a few weeks of doing that, you’re just like flipping the baby over, putting on the diaper, put them over your back real quick, burping him, whatever.
Mike: So, it was interesting to get used to that with both of them and learn how you could take care of both by yourself and you didn’t need to have the two parents to do it all the time, at least when they were little. It gets a little bit more difficult when they get a little older.
Joe: Were y’all bottle-feeding or breastfeeding?
Joe: So, that enables you and your wife, I guess, to both feed them at the same time?
Mike: Exactly, and we did that. We would go in shifts where it was always equal. We were always doing things equally. If we were doing night feedings and we had to feed them both, we would both be up there at the same time. We’d have two rocking chairs in the babies’ room, and we would just both rock and take turns in the chairs because one was more comfortable than the other, you know? We had little setups where we’d put out the changing pads and have the diapers set up so before we went to take our naps, so that when we got up, we didn’t have to worry about that or think about it even to change them. It was just already set up.
Mike: So, in our cycles of doing everything for setup, we would just set everything up at the end before we’d go to bed, and then we wake up, it’s already there with our… We had the Aquaphor out, we had the changing pads, we had diaper, we had the burp cloths. Everything was all just laid out and set up. It justly made it that much easier going into it.
Joe: Yeah, it was like a gift to your future self. Get stuff ready so when the time comes, you’ve got everything where you need it to be. And even though you’re sleep deprived, you can just say, “Oh, this is what… Everything’s ready. We’re good to go.”.
Mike: We crack up about those experiences thinking about that, how sleep deprived we were and how much my back hurt just getting up at every little sound that they would make when they were in the bassinets. We had them in the warmest room in our house, which was our living room. At the very early stage when we just brought them home, we figured… And this was after the emergency room incident with the temperature. If we put them in the living room, that was the warmest room in the house, and we were able to regulate that temperature in that room the best.
Mike: So, we would take turns sleeping on the couch next to them. And I remember any sound they made, I jumped up off the couch thinking, “Oh my, I have to get to them quickly. They might die,” and just be on top of them. And really, they were just cooing.
Joe: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Mike: So, it was getting used to that. Thinking about it now, I should have just slept while they slept instead of keeping one eye open the whole time and not getting any sleep.
Joe: That is something you learned. Yeah, it’s surprising how much noise babies make while they’re asleep. They’re making noises like you’re saying, cooing, or they’re moving around. And in the beginning every single noise you hear is like, “Uh-oh, they need to be fed, or soothed, or something’s the matter,” and that usually isn’t the case. They move around just like we do when we’re asleep.
Joe: How did the work situation… Was that with you and your wife? Did you both have time off, or time to take care of the babies in those early months?
Mike: I took as much time as I could to get full-time pay. So, I saved whatever vacation time I had, and I bulked it up for that time. Then, she took… She did… I think it was a… We had an insurance supplement because she got reduced pay where she went out on disability, and they did an insurance supplement where it paid like a certain percentage of her salary. So, she was able to take off a certain amount of time. Again, I can’t remember how long that was, but it felt adequate for us. Of course, we wish we would’ve had more to just ease back into things. But I think we did the most that we could while trying to maintain, bringing as much money in as we could so we could keep up the mortgage and the other bills. And then, we went into daycare as soon as she had to go back to work, and went into a daycare situation where they were both going into the baby room for daycare five days a week.
Joe: What was your process like in finding a daycare facility for your boys.
Mike: We visited four places. It was a no brainer for us because of… There were three friends of ours, three family friends of ours that live in the area that all went to the same daycare and spoke very highly of it. So, we wound up just doing the same in the end. But we’d visited four different daycares and made our own assessment over the staff, and how attentive they were, and the treatment that we viewed, and just what we heard from people around town that have gone there. And I think we’re still at the same daycare, and it’s now four years in without any complaints at all. They’re fantastic.
Joe: Well, that’s great to find a place that’s convenient to you and is a good fit for your boys.
Mike: It works well for our schedule. I start work. I do a compressed work week, so I’ll do four 10-hour days. Then, I have my fifth day off from my corporate job. But then I spend that time working on my freelance art. So, I have a full day on Fridays to work on my illustration and whatever freelance project that I have going on. I’m able to drop them off at daycare at 7:00 AM, and then my wife picks them up on her way home from work at like 4:30, 5:00. And then, we spend the evening together. The schedule-wise, it’s fantastic, and it’s convenient that they have the availability starting early. You could go later if you need to, because a lot of parents in our area, they have to commute from New York, so they have to get there a little bit later to pick up. And so, it just is really convenient and you know that it’s good, solid care that you’re getting for the kids.
Joe: Are the boys together at preschool? Are they separated?
Mike: We just switched them. We just separated them this year. Actually, it was in the beginning of the summer. We put them into two separate classrooms. We didn’t know how they were going to take it. But in the end, we were more nervous than they were about it because when they found out by accident from one of the teachers that was reading a list to someone, and they found out that they were going to be in separate classes, which was completely fine. It actually worked out really well because they came home and told us that they were going to be in separate classes.
Mike: We were operating thinking, “Oh, well, we talked to the teachers.” The teachers had said, “Just act like it’s a normal day. Don’t actually talk about it to build up any anxiety that they’re going to be separated,” because they’d been in separate classrooms within the day, “and just act like it’s normal. But this is what it’s going to be like, and just let it happen. And they will figure it out, and it’ll be great because they’re going to develop their individuality, and they won’t lean on each other for certain things that they may lean on each other for now.”.
Mike: It wound up being excellent. We came home and they were so excited. They said, “Well, I’m going to be in this class,” and, “I’m going to be in this class.” We were like, “Great.”
Joe: Has that excitement maintained itself?
Mike: Oh, yeah. It has. They still play on the playground together. And they see each other in the morning. When we drop off, we drop off in the same room. And then they split up when they go into separate rooms. Then of course, obviously, when they get home, they’re all over each other playing and doing stuff all the time.
Joe: That’s good practice for when they head off to school. They’ll likely be in different classes anyway.
Mike: We thought about that because we figured they would be forced at kindergarten because we’re looking to get into the public school system once we hit kindergarten a year from September. But we figured that the best experience would be to have it in a safe space that they knew with all the teachers that they already knew and the kids. Then, once they changed into the public school system, there may be a few of the kids from daycare still in that school with them, but the teacher’s going to be new. The environment’s going to be new. All of that will be new. So, having a little bit of individuality and stability, the confidence of being on their own felt like this was the right time to do it before that happens.
Joe: What are some of the milestones that they hit over the last couple of years that were kind of a turning point parenting-wise that made things are a little bit easier?
Mike: Potty training. That was a big one. We still do nighttime diapers for one of them, but we’re not forcing him to do anything. He can go through and nap during the day fine a without a diaper or without a Pull-Up on, I should say. But at night he still needs it, and he actually prefers it. We tried it for two weeks without it and it just, it’s constantly… He’s not able to get through it. But eventually I know it’s going to happen. Regardless, it’ll just happen. So, we’re not forcing it upon him to have to worry about that. What is your experience with that, with the potty training and where one twin is through it already and the other one is lagging behind a little bit?
Joe: Well, our girls, our twin girls actually are on kind of different paths for potty training. One of them was really into and excited to potty train and to… And her sister on the other hand kind of parked her heels and didn’t want it. She asked for her diapers back. And what we found was that we said, “Okay, fine,” because we realized they’re not going to be in diapers forever. This was when they were about two. We would just reinforce and give positive praise to the girl who was potty training and was using the potty. Eventually, her sister wanted that same attention and same verbal rewards or praise that we were giving to her sister. And so, she came around and started to potty train.
Joe: But as far as making it through the night, we’ve had different challenges with all four of our kids where some of them are able to make it through the night without any problems, and other ones for years have overnight challenges where they need that Pull-Up overnight just to make it through. They don’t always use it overnight, but it’s there as kind of a safety net. And eventually, they grow out of that and her fine.
Joe: One thing we had to do was with one of our boys. It’s not one of our twins. Before Mom and Dad would go to bed at night, we would go get him and take him to the potty. Wake him up, go take him to the potty, and then put him back into bed. And that often would help him make it through the night without any accidents. But they’ve all since grown out of that, which is fine. It just takes time for each of the kids, different paces for different kids.
Mike: We were pretty late to remove the child safety handle on the door, but we decided at a certain point we were going to take that off. When we did, it was this new sense of freedom to both of them where they could open the door on their own and go to the potty on their own. And that also meant they could come downstairs and go to the potty downstairs. So, it was like two hours after we put them to bed and they were still doing this every five minutes. They would come down the stairs and look around and like… I’m not kidding. It would be they’d go to the potty, they’d go back up the stairs, the door would shut, the door would open up again. The other twin would come down. They’d go over to the potty, they finished, they washed their hands, go back up the stairs, go… The door would shut, the door would open, the other twin would come down. It was just like this endless cycle.
Mike: I remember getting so frustrated about it and just saying, “It’s not humanly possible for you to go to the bathroom this much.” It was the thrill to them to just see what Mommy and Daddy do after they go to bed; to be able to walk around the house. And it was adorable to see how they treated the, “Oh, when it’s quiet time now. We’re supposed to be asleep.” So, they’d tiptoed down the stairs, and they would whisper. And then, they’d be like, “I’m just going to the potty.” Then they’d go over to the potty, and they’d come back up, and then go back up the stairs. It was adorable.
Joe: Yeah, it’s very interesting to watch how the kids read our reactions to everything and the stuff that we do, and the things that we say that will reinforce that behavior one way or the other.
Joe: What’s one thing that you wish you had learned before you had twins?
Mike: Oh, to sleep while they sleep. Everybody said it, but I never really believed it.
Joe: What’s the best piece of advice that you have received about raising twins?
Mike: Friends of ours that have twins, they told us to put them in their own room and don’t keep them in your room.
Joe: What’s a piece of baby gear that you and your twins could not have lived without?
Mike: Bouncy seats were great for bottle-feeding. I could do sit between two bouncy seats with the baby facing me, both babies facing me, and feed them that way with a bottle in each hand, and then get up onto a chair right after that and, with my feet just rock the bouncy seats, and they would nap right there. I remember going through that whole phase of… Well, phase. That whole section of our lives that that was really helpful, the bouncy seats.
Joe: That’s the exact setup that we used for bottle-feeding, particularly like you said when it was just me feeding or my wife feeding. You know, sit on the floor between two bouncy seats, pop a bottle in each baby’s mouth, and away you go.
Joe: So, what’s a piece of advice that you give to your fellow dads for maintaining their marriage and the relationship with their spouse through the challenges of the twin pregnancy in those first couple of years with twins?
Mike: Be attentive of your partner’s needs. We had a talk before the twins were born, my wife and I, naming one thing that we absolutely wanted to keep sacred. It was like our special thing that each had that we’d wanted to continue doing. For her it was exercising, and for me it was my art. So, we have these like, “Okay, exercise time is… We don’t touch that.” I have to make sure that she has time to do that. It’s very important. She makes sure that I have time to do my illustration work. That’s very important to me. So, we made this agreement that we’re both going to do these things and they’re untouchable. There are things that have to happen. Now, if there are times where we maybe have too many things scheduled where we can’t get to that, or it’s just not going to work out that day, and that happens, and that’s okay. But having that talk ahead of time and knowing what each of you need and just being able to do that I think was really helpful for us.
Mike: And then not being… Actually, not not being, but making yourself available for your partner to do the things that are necessary to get done. We have this unspoken language, my wife and I, of is it laundry? Is it dishes? Is it vacuuming that needs to be done? Is it lunches that need to be made? And if one of us notices that that is not done, then we’re on it and we’re doing it. It’s not a, “You do this, and I do this.” It’s, “We’re in this together, and we work together to get this done because we’re a team.” So, I think that is incredibly useful for us that it’s not a… like, “I’m the guy and I have to do this, and you’re the girl and you have to do that.” It’s, “This is a team and we’re in this together. And in order for this family to work, we’re all going to chip in, and we’re all going to do everything.”
Joe: That’s fantastic. What a beautiful perspective and arrangement that you have as partners there to make it work both for your boys but also to make sure you have time for each other and time together. That’s fantastic. So Mike, you are an amazing artist and illustrator and have just released a new book for children called Twins. Tell us about what was the impetus behind that to creating that book?
Mike: The whole idea was sparked… I have an illustration, a picture book, author, illustrator, agent. The whole thing started with a conversation with my agent about the possibility of doing a twins book. And then, through the conversation, we figured out having the one character be a boy and one character be a giraffe because you wouldn’t expect it. Then, just coming up with the silliness that could happen of, well, what if a twin was a giraffe? How would they eat a salad? Or how would they ride a bike? Or how would they dance? You know, stuff like that. That’s how it started. Then, we developed it into a picture book.
Joe: Yeah, one of my girls, one of my twin girls, is a huge giraffe fan. Even though she’s 11, I had her read through this and she absolutely loved it. Illustrations are just amazing, and it’s a fun, fun story where you get to see the boy and the giraffe, I guess as fraternal twins here, figure out how to get along, and things they do together, and things they may drive each other crazy with. But ultimately that it’s good to have a wonderful companion and friend in this journey of life as a twin.
Mike: Yeah, and to see there that moment where there’s… I don’t want to spoil it for anybody, but there’s a moment where the kids don’t get along, as is life, and they figure out how to make it work, and compromise and work together to achieve their goal, and to just be around each other. So, I think… I know that close siblings, you especially see that where… And twins you’re going to see that where they disagree all the time. But it’s just reminding them constantly that, “Hey, this is your buddy. This is your pal. You guys are spending a lot of time together. As with any friendship or any relationship, you need to be able to work together. So, considering a compromise and a solution that’s going to benefit both of you is going to be the fun way to figure this out, and you’re going to have more fun together if you can think that way.”
Joe: Absolutely. Do you see your boys in some of these situations and illustrations that you made?
Mike: Most of the situations. But the characters flip. Where one situation is the boy, one of them will be the boy and the other one, that same boy would be the giraffe. So, one dances all over the place, and the other one just dances in one place and doesn’t move around too much. Or one loves books and wants to have all the books, and the other one will just have one off to the side by himself quietly. So, yeah, there’s definitely… I took most of those, the scenes that are in the book, and just related what our twins would do in those situations, and then kind of embellished and figured out, how would that be funny if a giraffe was doing that now?
Joe: So, have they read through the book and pointed out, “Hey, that’s me,” or “Hey, that’s you”?
Mike: Absolutely. Absolutely. There’s this scene where the… the nighttime scene when they’re in the bunk beds. They don’t actually have bunk beds, but there’s a lot of elements within that spread that I took some of their belongings and put them in there as little Easter eggs for them to look at the book and say, “Oh, that’s my backpack,” or “That’s my little train bridge.” So, to me it’s kind of like a time capsule to remember those toys and those objects that they had in their life at that moment when I was creating the book.
Joe: Yeah, what a fun memory for them to have and cherish for years to come. That’s awesome. So, Mike, if listeners want to get the book for themselves, for their twins, where’s the best place to pick it up?
Mike: It should be available wherever books are sold. If it’s not at your independent bookstore that’s close to your house, you can always ask them to order it. The publisher is Farrar Straus Giroux, and it’s a MacMillan book. So, MacMillan is the publisher. FSG is the acronym. Farrar Straus Giroux is the imprint of Macmillan. So that you can just say that Twins is the book. My name is Mike Ciccotello, and you can order it through your independent bookstore, or you should be able to pick it up online through Barnes and Noble or Amazon.
Joe: Perfect. And I’ll link up to that in the show notes for this episode of our TwinDadPodcast.com so listeners can order that book. Mike, you and I were talking before the show that we’re going to give away a copy of your new book, Twins-
Joe: … to one of our listeners. So, if you who are listening would like to pick up a book for your twins, win a copy of this book, what you need to do is head over to our Instagram pages. I am @TwinDadJoe and Mike is @Ciccotello. And if you’re following us, then in the next week or so after this episode airs, we’re going to do a giveaway on Instagram for the book. So, Mike, if listeners do want to reach out to you, what’s your website or other ways to get ahold of you?
Mike: My website is my last name, ciccotello.com, same as my Instagram handle, and I have a little email that you could reach out to me through there if you go to my website. And just go to the About page. There’s a form you can fill out to contact me.
Joe: Fantastic. Well, thank you, Mike, for sharing your twin journey with us. We really appreciate it.
Mike: Thank you so much, Joe.
Joe: I hope you enjoyed that chat with Mike about his twin journey so far and his pretty cool new book called Twins. I’ll include links to all of his contact information and his book and other references we discussed over at a TwinDadPodcast.com. And remember, if you want a chance to win a copy of his book, make sure you’re following us on Instagram @TwinDadJoe and @Ciccotello.
Joe: Today’s show is brought to you by TwinTshirtCompany.Com, where you’ll find dozens of t-shirts for you, parents of twins. Check out those shirts at TwinTshirtCompany.Com. If you would like to feature your twin story on an upcoming episode of the podcast, why don’t you reach out to me, [email protected] or I’m on Instagram or Twitter @TwinDadJoe, and I’d love to chat.
Joe: Thank you so much for listening and I’ll see you next time.
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